博通给CPO泼冷水：400G SerDes依然坚守铜缆

芯视点03-09 21:49

在近日的财报说明会上，博通CEO陈福阳表示，随着我们在2028年迈向400G SerDes，我们的XPU客户很可能继续使用直连铜缆。这是一个巨大的优势，因为采用光纤方案成本更高，而且需要消耗更多电力。原文：As we next step up to 400G SerDes in 2028, our XPU customers will likely continue to stay on ...

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And this is a huge advantage as the alternative of going to optical is more expensive and requires significantly more power.他在回答分析师问题的时候进一步指出，好的。不，我只是想强调一点：在网络方面，博通的技术确实拥有非常独特的优势，能够帮助我们的客户，而且不仅仅是我们的客户，还包括使用通用GPU（而不仅仅是XPU）的客户。如果您正在尝试创建LLM，创建您自己的AI数据中心并对其进行重新设计（架构设计），您肯定希望构建越来越大的域或集群，并且尽可能地将XPU直接连接到XPU。而实现这一点的最佳方式就是使用直连铜缆。直连铜缆具有最低的延迟、最低的功耗和最低的成本。因此，您应该尽可能地继续使用直连铜缆，尤其是在向上扩展时。在Scale Out（横向扩展）时，我们使用光纤网络即可。但我指的是在机架中Scale Up（向上扩展）——也就是集群域——您真的应该尽可能地使用直连铜缆。基于博通的技术，我们仍然能够使用铜缆实现XPU到XPU甚至GPU到GPU的连接。我们可以将传输速率从 100G 提升到 200G，甚至 400G。我们现在已经有了运行 400G 的 SerDes，可以在机架上远距离传输铜缆。我只是想说，你没必要非得去追求什么叫 CPO 的闪亮新玩意儿（All I am trying to say is you do not need to go run into some bright shiny object called CPO）。即使我们在 CPO 领域处于领先地位，CPO 也终究会到来。不是今年，也许也不是明年。但总有一天会到来。（原文：Even as we are the lead in CPO, CPOs will come in its time. Not this year, maybe not next year. But in its time.）综上所述，CPO先驱和领先者正式给这个最近火热的技术泼了一把冷水。Marvell对CPO的看法在日前，Marvell也发布了对CPO的看法。他们表示，公司收购Celestial AI 的 PF 技术有望从明年开始实现 CPO 的大规模商业部署，从而增强可扩展连接。公司的芯片将与定制的 XPU 以及连接链路两端的可扩展交换机共同封装。随着收购的完成，Marvell 的工程和运营团队正全力以赴，将 Celestial 的第一代芯片投入大规模生产。我们仍有望按计划实现来自 Celestial 的 CPO 收入，预计到 2028 财年第四季度，年化收入将达到 5 亿美元，到 2029 财年第四季度将翻一番，达到年化收入 10 亿美元。交易宣布后，Marvell看到众多客户对 Celestial 的光子结构技术表现出浓厚的兴趣。该公司重申一直以来的观点：相对于可插拔收发器的部署数量而言，CPO的部署和横向扩展将相对有限。早在很多届光纤会议之前，我们就一直持有这种观点，而且直到今天依然如此。我认为展望未来，这种观点仍然相对明智。尽管您可能会在业内看到一些例外情况。“虽然我们完全可以这样做，并将Celestial的技术和我们的Innovium Teralynx产品进行整合，但这并非我们目前的计划。我们已经做过概念验证，也做了一些相关工作，但我们会随时根据市场需求做出反应。”Marvell 接着说。说到规模化应用，你提到了UAL，那正是CPO技术能够发挥巨大作用的完美应用案例。Marvell进一步指出，公司首个CPO商用订单将在明年部署。而通过将Celestial的CPO技术直接集成到公司的交换机中，Marvell进一步优化了我们的扩展路线图，从而提供了一个专用的、完全优化的端到端光扩展平台。为什么必须是CPO？过去，我们不少人认为在 400G 及以上速率的 SerDes 应用中必须向 CPO (Co-Packaged Optics，共封装光学) 转向，核心痛点在于传统的“可插拔光模块”方案在物理层面遇到了无法逾越的“功耗墙”和“传输损耗墙”。简单来说，随着数据吞吐量翻倍，铜线传输信号的难度呈指数级增加。以下是几个关键的推动因素：1. 信号完整性与传输距离的极限在高速数据传输中，电信号在PCB走线中传输时，衰减非常严重。高频损耗： 频率越高，信号在铜线上的衰减越快（趋肤效应）。物理距离限制： 传统的 SerDes 位于交换芯片（ASIC）内部，信号需要通过 PCB 走线穿过连接器，再到达面板上的光模块。对于 100G/lane 及以上的速率，电信号在 PCB 上走过几厘米就会产生巨大的损耗，导致信号失真，无法读取。2. 功耗的瓶颈 (Power Wall)为了解决上述的信号衰减问题，传统方案必须在 SerDes 中使用极强的 DSP (数字信号处理) 和 重定时器 (Retimer) 来进行信号补偿和放大。补偿代价： 这些补偿电路本身极其耗电。效率低下： 随着速率提升，用于“驱动电信号在铜线上跑一段距离”的功耗占比越来越高，甚至占到整机功耗的 30%-40% 以上，这在功耗预算极其紧张的数据中心是不可接受的。3. CPO 的解决思路：距离即正义CPO 的核心逻辑是将光引擎（Optical Engine）直接搬到交换芯片旁边（甚至封装在同一个基板上）。极短的电连接： 电信号只需要走几毫米（芯片到光引擎的距离），而不是十几厘米（芯片到前面板），这意味着几乎不需要复杂的重定时或过度的功率补偿。大幅降低功耗： 去掉了长距离电驱动的负担，系统功耗可以降低约 30% 左右，这对于大规模集群来说是巨大的运营成本节省。总结：为什么是现在？在 400G 时代，虽然传统方案还能勉强支撑，但能效比已经到了临界点。到了 800G 和 1.6T，如果继续沿用传统方式：散热无法解决： 密集的插拔模块产生的热量会瘫痪设备。带宽受限： PCB 布线密度已经无法再增加，无法承载更高密度的端口。因此，业界将 CPO 视为延续摩尔定律在光互连领域生命力的关键技术。不过，在过去，因为技术的限制，大家都对CPO有观望态度。但现在，这个技术可能真的还要等等。","kind":"news","is_publish_news":true,"is_publish_highlight":false,"is_publish_live":false,"is_publish_wemedia":null,"editions":null,"column":"","sentiment":"0","news_tag":"","news_rank":0,"symbols":[],"gpt_button":0,"need_auth":false,"code":"91000000","status":"200"},"commentList":[],"isCommentEnd":true,"newsSizeData":{"likeSize":1,"commentSize":0,"repostSize":0,"favoriteSize":0,"likeStatus":false,"favoriteStatus":false},"APP":{"userAgent":"Mozilla/5.0 AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko; compatible; ClaudeBot/1.0; +claudebot@anthropic.com)","isDev":false,"isTTM":false,"tenantId":"TBCN","deviceId":"web-server-community-laohu8-v3","version":"4.36.2","shortVersion":"4.36.2","platform":"web","vendor":"web","appName":"laohu8","isIOS":false,"isAndroid":false,"isTiger":false,"isTHS":false,"isWeiXin":false,"isWeiXinMini":false,"isWeiBo":false,"isQQ":false,"isBaiduSwan":false,"isBaiduBox":false,"isDingTalk":false,"isToutiao":false,"isOnePlus":false,"isHuaWei":false,"isXiaomi":false,"isXiaomiWebView":false,"isOppo":false,"isVivo":false,"isSamsung":false,"isMobile":false},"href":"/m/news/2618243796","isCrawlerRequest":true}